Dear Tony, the first sentence in the wikipedia entry is "Sociocracy is a theory of governance that seeks to create psychologically safe environments and productive organizations." OST focuses on expanding time and space for the unfolding of the forces of  selforganisation. It is not interested nor attached to any outcome. However, what regularly  happens in OST events are such things as creating safe environments, productive organisations and many other things. These are then felt to be the aim of ost events. Wrong. Stuff like that evolves because there is no other goal than the one postulated. cheers mmp Am 28.10.2022 um 17:46 schrieb Tony Budak: > > Hi Michael, > > Love the way you shared your thinking and wrote here below. Thank you. > > Would you kindly share any insights regards > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociocracy > > Thanks again and again, > Tony > > On 10/28/2022 7:12 AM, Michael M Pannwitz via OSList wrote: >> Dear Tonnie, >> >> in your email of October 23 you wrote: >> "We tried to translate the steps from an offline environment to an >> online one..." >> >> Looking at the document I noticed that you used "voting" in the >> Action Planning part. >> >> Way back, when actively working as a facilitator (more than a decade >> ago) I also used "voting". >> However, I used the word "weighing" (gewichten, in German). >> I was an old hand outfittet with many voting tools in my prior 3 >> decades as an OD consultant (took me a long time to work myself out >> of the OD mode). >> Keeping a close eye on everything that took place in the os events we >> noticed that "voting" along the line of >> "what you think is most important to work out in action plans" often >> led to the "odd" behavior that the most important item was not worked on. >> After a while and being aware that "voting" is a statistical approach >> we felt that the most important aspect would be what took place at >> the beginning of an os when posting issues: Heart and meaning, >> passion and responsibility. >> >> So we decided to simply have Action Planning in open space mode. >> This meant that on the last half day (usually on Day 3 of an open >> space), participants met in the circle and posted "projects" they >> wanted to work on. Oddly enough, some of the projects posted >> apparently had no direct connection to what had happended in the >> divergent part (the first two days). (Maybe encouraged by one of my >> comments in the beginning such as "Divergence was in the last two >> days, now the focus is on projects that I am passionatly interested >> in and will be responible for") >> Since this approach worked beautifully and was always a dynamic and >> intensive way of  getting into the action-oriented nature of os >> events we decided to put "voting" or "weighing" into the box labeled >> "one less thing to do". >> >> In November of 2013 I had the privilege to co-facilitate the Action >> Planning phase of the 3-day European Learning Exchange in Utrecht >> convened by Frank Little (hi there). >> >> Nobody has done what is called "research" on this and much other >> strange stuff that happens in os. And I think thats perfectly ok, >> knowing that what works is important and being aware that at least I >> will never understand the mysteries of  systems and the force of >> selforganisation. Every time we closely watch the prerequisites for >> having an open space event including all other experimentally tested >> aspects of our craft, it works perfectly. >> All the events that did not work that I heard of or was part of, were >> not sufficiently close enough to duplicate the effect of the tested >> experiment (missing even one of the prerequisites or trying to get >> ost working on a  wicked "business issue" within one day where >> actually 3 days were required or not having enough of the system in >> the room... ). >> >> And at this point I usually tell the story of sometimes meeting folks >> on the public transportation system in Berlin staring at me and >> suddenly bursting out with "open space". When we figured out which >> open space the other passenger meant and where it took place and what >> it was all about, I would ask what took place after the event. >> Invariably, folks told me things that I could in no way connect to >> the os, not even after looking at the documentations that I collected >> in my archives. >> Yes, I knew it was the ripple effect, completely beyond any control. >> Well, the old admonition "never delude yourself to be in control" >> (never delude yourself in understanding complex systems) pops up. >> >> I invite you to try the "Action Space" approach in one of your next >> online events. >> >> The script you can find on pages 168 to 175 of the book Meine open >> space Praxis >>> https://www.westkreuz-verlag.de/de/Meine-open-space-Praxis-E-Book >>> https://www.westkreuz-verlag.de/de/Meine-open-space-Praxis >> >> Frank Little might have an English version of the "Action Space" that >> was recordet at the European Learning Exchange in Utrecht back in >> 2013... there were 20 participants from Finland, Germany, Italy, >> Netherlands and Poland. >> Hi to you all just in case you kept reading up to this point. >> >> >> Have a great day and lets talk more at the WOSonOS in Berlin next year >> mmp >> >> Michael M Pannwitz >> Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin >> +49 30 7728000mmpannwitz@posteo.de >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list --everyone@oslist.org >> To unsubscribe send an email toeveryone-leave@oslist.org Michael M Pannwitz Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin +49 30 7728000mmpannwitz@posteo.de

And the two can co-exist quite nicely, as in Company-wide Agility book by John Buck (sociocracy author) and Jutta Eckstein. https://smile.amazon.com/Company-wide-Agility-Beyond-Budgeting-Sociocracy-ebook/dp/B0841298GC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1666976094&sr=8-1 Company-wide Agility with Beyond Budgeting, Open Space & Sociocracy: Survive & Thrive on Disruption smile.amazon.com Diana ************** Diana Larsen dianalarsen.com <http://dianalarsen.com/> and agilefluency.org <https://www.agilefluency.org/> NOW Available: Lead without Blame: Building Resilient Learning Teams <https://www.bkconnection.com/books/title/Lead-without-Blame> Read the books: Agile Retrospectives: Making Good Teams Great <https://pragprog.com/book/dlret/agile-retrospectives> PMI-ACP Top 10 & Amazon Top 20: Best Management Information Systems Books - 2nd edition coming soon The Art of Agile Development, 2nd edition <https://www.amazon.com/Art-Agile-Development-James-Shore/dp/1492080691> Liftoff: Start and Sustain Successful Agile Teams <https://pragprog.com/book/liftoff/liftoff-second-edition> Five Rules for Accelerated Learning  <http://leanpub.com/fiverules> ******************** > On Oct 28, 2022, at 8:56 AM, Michael M Pannwitz via OSList <everyone@oslist.org> wrote: > > Dear Tony, > > the first sentence in the wikipedia entry is > > "Sociocracy is a theory of governance that seeks to create psychologically safe environments and productive organizations." > > OST focuses on expanding time and space for the unfolding of the forces of selforganisation. > It is not interested nor attached to any outcome. > > However, what regularly happens in OST events are such things as creating safe environments, productive organisations and many other things. These are then felt to be the aim of ost events. Wrong. Stuff like that evolves because there is no other goal than the one postulated. > > cheers > mmp > > Am 28.10.2022 um 17:46 schrieb Tony Budak: >> Hi Michael, >> >> Love the way you shared your thinking and wrote here below. Thank you. >> >> Would you kindly share any insights regards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociocracy >> >> Thanks again and again, >> Tony >> >> On 10/28/2022 7:12 AM, Michael M Pannwitz via OSList wrote: >>> Dear Tonnie, >>> >>> in your email of October 23 you wrote: >>> "We tried to translate the steps from an offline environment to an online one..." >>> >>> Looking at the document I noticed that you used "voting" in the Action Planning part. >>> >>> Way back, when actively working as a facilitator (more than a decade ago) I also used "voting". >>> However, I used the word "weighing" (gewichten, in German). >>> I was an old hand outfittet with many voting tools in my prior 3 decades as an OD consultant (took me a long time to work myself out of the OD mode). >>> Keeping a close eye on everything that took place in the os events we noticed that "voting" along the line of >>> "what you think is most important to work out in action plans" often led to the "odd" behavior that the most important item was not worked on. >>> After a while and being aware that "voting" is a statistical approach we felt that the most important aspect would be what took place at the beginning of an os when posting issues: Heart and meaning, passion and responsibility. >>> >>> So we decided to simply have Action Planning in open space mode. >>> This meant that on the last half day (usually on Day 3 of an open space), participants met in the circle and posted "projects" they wanted to work on. Oddly enough, some of the projects posted apparently had no direct connection to what had happended in the divergent part (the first two days). (Maybe encouraged by one of my comments in the beginning such as "Divergence was in the last two days, now the focus is on projects that I am passionatly interested in and will be responible for") >>> Since this approach worked beautifully and was always a dynamic and intensive way of getting into the action-oriented nature of os events we decided to put "voting" or "weighing" into the box labeled "one less thing to do". >>> >>> In November of 2013 I had the privilege to co-facilitate the Action Planning phase of the 3-day European Learning Exchange in Utrecht convened by Frank Little (hi there). >>> >>> Nobody has done what is called "research" on this and much other strange stuff that happens in os. And I think thats perfectly ok, knowing that what works is important and being aware that at least I will never understand the mysteries of systems and the force of selforganisation. Every time we closely watch the prerequisites for having an open space event including all other experimentally tested aspects of our craft, it works perfectly. >>> All the events that did not work that I heard of or was part of, were not sufficiently close enough to duplicate the effect of the tested experiment (missing even one of the prerequisites or trying to get ost working on a wicked "business issue" within one day where actually 3 days were required or not having enough of the system in the room... ). >>> >>> And at this point I usually tell the story of sometimes meeting folks on the public transportation system in Berlin staring at me and suddenly bursting out with "open space". When we figured out which open space the other passenger meant and where it took place and what it was all about, I would ask what took place after the event. Invariably, folks told me things that I could in no way connect to the os, not even after looking at the documentations that I collected in my archives. >>> Yes, I knew it was the ripple effect, completely beyond any control. >>> Well, the old admonition "never delude yourself to be in control" (never delude yourself in understanding complex systems) pops up. >>> >>> I invite you to try the "Action Space" approach in one of your next online events. >>> >>> The script you can find on pages 168 to 175 of the book Meine open space Praxis >>> >>>> >>>> https://www.westkreuz-verlag.de/de/Meine-open-space-Praxis-E-Book >>>> https://www.westkreuz-verlag.de/de/Meine-open-space-Praxis >>> >>> Frank Little might have an English version of the "Action Space" that was recordet at the European Learning Exchange in Utrecht back in 2013... there were 20 participants from Finland, Germany, Italy, Netherlands and Poland. >>> Hi to you all just in case you kept reading up to this point. >>> >>> >>> Have a great day and lets talk more at the WOSonOS in Berlin next year >>> mmp >>> >>> Michael M Pannwitz >>> Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin >>> +49 30 7728000 mmpannwitz@posteo.de <mailto:mmpannwitz@posteo.de> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OSList mailing list -- everyone@oslist.org <mailto:everyone@oslist.org> >>> To unsubscribe send an email to everyone-leave@oslist.org <mailto:everyone-leave@oslist.org> > > > > Michael M Pannwitz > Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin > +49 30 7728000 mmpannwitz@posteo.de <mailto:mmpannwitz@posteo.de>_______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list -- everyone@oslist.org > To unsubscribe send an email to everyone-leave@oslist.org

Thank you Michael and Diana I find your comments smart and helpful thanks again. In solidarity, Tony On 10/28/2022 12:57 PM, Diana Larsen wrote: > And the two can co-exist quite nicely, as in Company-wide Agility book > by John Buck (sociocracy author) and Jutta Eckstein. > > 417ZOnPda7L._SR600,315_PIWhiteStrip,BottomLeft,0,35_PIStarRatingFOURANDHALF,BottomLeft,360,-6_SR600,315_ZA34,445,290,400,400,AmazonEmberBold,12,4,0,0,5_SCLZZZZZZZ_FMpng_BG255,255,255.jpg > > Company-wide Agility with Beyond Budgeting, Open Space & Sociocracy: > Survive & Thrive on Disruption > <https://smile.amazon.com/Company-wide-Agility-Beyond-Budgeting-Sociocracy-ebook/dp/B0841298GC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1666976094&sr=8-1> > smile.amazon.com > <https://smile.amazon.com/Company-wide-Agility-Beyond-Budgeting-Sociocracy-ebook/dp/B0841298GC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1666976094&sr=8-1> > > <https://smile.amazon.com/Company-wide-Agility-Beyond-Budgeting-Sociocracy-ebook/dp/B0841298GC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1666976094&sr=8-1> > > Diana > > > ************** > *Diana Larsen* > dianalarsen.com <http://dianalarsen.com> and agilefluency.org > <https://www.agilefluency.org> > *NOW Available: */Lead without Blame: Building Resilient Learning > Teams/ <https://www.bkconnection.com/books/title/Lead-without-Blame> > > Read the books: > /Agile Retrospectives: Making Good Teams Great/ > <https://pragprog.com/book/dlret/agile-retrospectives>//PMI-ACP Top 10 > & Amazon Top 20: Best Management Information Systems Books - 2nd > edition coming soon > /The Art of Agile Development, 2nd edition/ > <https://www.amazon.com/Art-Agile-Development-James-Shore/dp/1492080691> > /Liftoff: Start and Sustain Successful Agile Teams > <https://pragprog.com/book/liftoff/liftoff-second-edition>/ > /Five Rules for Accelerated Learning <http://leanpub.com/fiverules>/ > ******************** > >> On Oct 28, 2022, at 8:56 AM, Michael M Pannwitz via OSList >> <everyone@oslist.org> wrote: >> >> Dear Tony, >> >> the first sentence in the wikipedia entry is >> >> "Sociocracy is a theory of governance that seeks to create >> psychologically safe environments and productive organizations." >> >> OST focuses on expanding time and space for the unfolding of the >> forces of  selforganisation. >> It is not interested nor attached to any outcome. >> >> However, what regularly  happens in OST events are such things as >> creating safe environments, productive organisations and many other >> things. These are then felt to be the aim of ost events. Wrong. Stuff >> like that evolves because there is no other goal than the one postulated. >> >> cheers >> mmp >> >> Am 28.10.2022 um 17:46 schrieb Tony Budak: >>> >>> Hi Michael, >>> >>> Love the way you shared your thinking and wrote here below. Thank you. >>> >>> Would you kindly share any insights regards >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociocracy >>> >>> Thanks again and again, >>> Tony >>> >>> On 10/28/2022 7:12 AM, Michael M Pannwitz via OSList wrote: >>>> Dear Tonnie, >>>> >>>> in your email of October 23 you wrote: >>>> "We tried to translate the steps from an offline environment to an >>>> online one..." >>>> >>>> Looking at the document I noticed that you used "voting" in the >>>> Action Planning part. >>>> >>>> Way back, when actively working as a facilitator (more than a >>>> decade ago) I also used "voting". >>>> However, I used the word "weighing" (gewichten, in German). >>>> I was an old hand outfittet with many voting tools in my prior 3 >>>> decades as an OD consultant (took me a long time to work myself out >>>> of the OD mode). >>>> Keeping a close eye on everything that took place in the os events >>>> we noticed that "voting" along the line of >>>> "what you think is most important to work out in action plans" >>>> often led to the "odd" behavior that the most important item was >>>> not worked on. >>>> After a while and being aware that "voting" is a statistical >>>> approach we felt that the most important aspect would be what took >>>> place at the beginning of an os when posting issues: Heart and >>>> meaning, passion and responsibility. >>>> >>>> So we decided to simply have Action Planning in open space mode. >>>> This meant that on the last half day (usually on Day 3 of an open >>>> space), participants met in the circle and posted "projects" they >>>> wanted to work on. Oddly enough, some of the projects posted >>>> apparently had no direct connection to what had happended in the >>>> divergent part (the first two days). (Maybe encouraged by one of my >>>> comments in the beginning such as "Divergence was in the last two >>>> days, now the focus is on projects that I am passionatly interested >>>> in and will be responible for") >>>> Since this approach worked beautifully and was always a dynamic and >>>> intensive way of  getting into the action-oriented nature of os >>>> events we decided to put "voting" or "weighing" into the box >>>> labeled "one less thing to do". >>>> >>>> In November of 2013 I had the privilege to co-facilitate the Action >>>> Planning phase of the 3-day European Learning Exchange in Utrecht >>>> convened by Frank Little (hi there). >>>> >>>> Nobody has done what is called "research" on this and much other >>>> strange stuff that happens in os. And I think thats perfectly ok, >>>> knowing that what works is important and being aware that at least >>>> I will never understand the mysteries of  systems and the force of >>>> selforganisation. Every time we closely watch the prerequisites for >>>> having an open space event including all other experimentally >>>> tested aspects of our craft, it works perfectly. >>>> All the events that did not work that I heard of or was part of, >>>> were not sufficiently close enough to duplicate the effect of the >>>> tested experiment (missing even one of the prerequisites or  trying >>>> to get ost working on a  wicked "business issue" within one day >>>> where actually 3 days were required or not having enough of the >>>> system in the room... ). >>>> >>>> And at this point I usually tell the story of sometimes meeting >>>> folks on the public transportation system in Berlin staring at me >>>> and suddenly bursting out with "open space". When we figured out >>>> which open space the other passenger meant and where it took place >>>> and what it was all about, I would ask what took place after the >>>> event. Invariably, folks told me things that I could in no way >>>> connect to the os, not even after looking at the documentations >>>> that I collected in my archives. >>>> Yes, I knew it was the ripple effect, completely beyond any control. >>>> Well, the old admonition "never delude yourself to be in control" >>>> (never delude yourself in understanding complex systems) pops up. >>>> >>>> I invite you to try the "Action Space" approach in one of your next >>>> online events. >>>> >>>> The script you can find on pages 168 to 175 of the book Meine open >>>> space Praxis >>>>> https://www.westkreuz-verlag.de/de/Meine-open-space-Praxis-E-Book >>>>> https://www.westkreuz-verlag.de/de/Meine-open-space-Praxis >>>> >>>> Frank Little might have an English version of the "Action Space" >>>> that was recordet at the European Learning Exchange in Utrecht back >>>> in 2013... there were 20 participants from Finland, Germany, Italy, >>>> Netherlands and Poland. >>>> Hi to you all just in case you kept reading up to this point. >>>> >>>> >>>> Have a great day and lets talk more at the WOSonOS in Berlin next year >>>> mmp >>>> >>>> Michael M Pannwitz >>>> Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin >>>> +49 30 7728000mmpannwitz@posteo.de >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OSList mailing list --everyone@oslist.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email toeveryone-leave@oslist.org >> >> Michael M Pannwitz >> Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin >> +49 30 7728000mmpannwitz@posteo.de >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list -- everyone@oslist.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to everyone-leave@oslist.org > -- Click HERE to Chat with Tony <https://pickatime.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php> Stay Safe and Well, Tony Budak P.S. Record your unpaid work time and get valuable - spendable Learning Time Credits. <https://hourworld.org/bank/?hw=1968>

Dear Diane, no doubt, different approaches with different unique characteristics do exist. And I assume that co-existance of different approaches with different unique characteristics might be fun and productive. My experience with very large complex systems  (such as an entire inner city neighborhood in Berlin) is that they can benefit from different approaches. A future search that took place after a year long planning process produced a variety of projects people were heavily involved in... including close cooperation between diverse groups/interests. Against this background, an OST event that needed just one 3.5 hour Planning Session took place a few months after the Future Search having the characteristics of a "next meeting". And, as you probably remember,  the ost event I facilitated for a company with a staff of 35 who work with agile worked fine as usual, including two next meetings in the weeks following the ost event. What I never experienced are hybrids such as an openspace-future search, or an agile-openspace.... I did experience, however, that the yearly gatherings of future search facilitators were conducted in open space (I was part of this in Philadelphia, Stockholm and facilitated one on the Island of Jersey). The future search folks had developed impressive approaches in the aspect of "getting the whole system in the roome". Which meant, that the participants of those Learning Exchanges were not only facilitators but also clients (companies, government agencies, foundations and what have you), researchers, authors... Something we never achieved to any significant extent in our WOSonOS gatherings or the OS Learning Exchanges in Europe. How about our next WOSonOS in Berlin in 12 months? Would be an opportunity of having more divergence and more of the whole system in the room... imagine every one of us attending would bring along one client or other different  critters... Wishing us all a weekend of our liking mmp Am 28.10.2022 um 18:57 schrieb Diana Larsen: > And the two can co-exist quite nicely, as in Company-wide Agility book > by John Buck (sociocracy author) and Jutta Eckstein. > > 417ZOnPda7L._SR600,315_PIWhiteStrip,BottomLeft,0,35_PIStarRatingFOURANDHALF,BottomLeft,360,-6_SR600,315_ZA34,445,290,400,400,AmazonEmberBold,12,4,0,0,5_SCLZZZZZZZ_FMpng_BG255,255,255.jpg > > Company-wide Agility with Beyond Budgeting, Open Space & Sociocracy: > Survive & Thrive on Disruption > <https://smile.amazon.com/Company-wide-Agility-Beyond-Budgeting-Sociocracy-ebook/dp/B0841298GC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1666976094&sr=8-1> > smile.amazon.com > <https://smile.amazon.com/Company-wide-Agility-Beyond-Budgeting-Sociocracy-ebook/dp/B0841298GC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1666976094&sr=8-1> > > <https://smile.amazon.com/Company-wide-Agility-Beyond-Budgeting-Sociocracy-ebook/dp/B0841298GC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1666976094&sr=8-1> > > Diana > > > ************** > *Diana Larsen* > dianalarsen.com <http://dianalarsen.com> and agilefluency.org > <https://www.agilefluency.org> > *NOW Available: */Lead without Blame: Building Resilient Learning > Teams/ <https://www.bkconnection.com/books/title/Lead-without-Blame> > > Read the books: > /Agile Retrospectives: Making Good Teams Great/ > <https://pragprog.com/book/dlret/agile-retrospectives>//PMI-ACP Top 10 > & Amazon Top 20: Best Management Information Systems Books - 2nd > edition coming soon > /The Art of Agile Development, 2nd edition/ > <https://www.amazon.com/Art-Agile-Development-James-Shore/dp/1492080691> > /Liftoff: Start and Sustain Successful Agile Teams > <https://pragprog.com/book/liftoff/liftoff-second-edition>/ > /Five Rules for Accelerated Learning <http://leanpub.com/fiverules>/ > ******************** > >> On Oct 28, 2022, at 8:56 AM, Michael M Pannwitz via OSList >> <everyone@oslist.org> wrote: >> >> Dear Tony, >> >> the first sentence in the wikipedia entry is >> >> "Sociocracy is a theory of governance that seeks to create >> psychologically safe environments and productive organizations." >> >> OST focuses on expanding time and space for the unfolding of the >> forces of  selforganisation. >> It is not interested nor attached to any outcome. >> >> However, what regularly  happens in OST events are such things as >> creating safe environments, productive organisations and many other >> things. These are then felt to be the aim of ost events. Wrong. Stuff >> like that evolves because there is no other goal than the one postulated. >> >> cheers >> mmp >> >> Am 28.10.2022 um 17:46 schrieb Tony Budak: >>> >>> Hi Michael, >>> >>> Love the way you shared your thinking and wrote here below. Thank you. >>> >>> Would you kindly share any insights regards >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociocracy >>> >>> Thanks again and again, >>> Tony >>> >>> On 10/28/2022 7:12 AM, Michael M Pannwitz via OSList wrote: >>>> Dear Tonnie, >>>> >>>> in your email of October 23 you wrote: >>>> "We tried to translate the steps from an offline environment to an >>>> online one..." >>>> >>>> Looking at the document I noticed that you used "voting" in the >>>> Action Planning part. >>>> >>>> Way back, when actively working as a facilitator (more than a >>>> decade ago) I also used "voting". >>>> However, I used the word "weighing" (gewichten, in German). >>>> I was an old hand outfittet with many voting tools in my prior 3 >>>> decades as an OD consultant (took me a long time to work myself out >>>> of the OD mode). >>>> Keeping a close eye on everything that took place in the os events >>>> we noticed that "voting" along the line of >>>> "what you think is most important to work out in action plans" >>>> often led to the "odd" behavior that the most important item was >>>> not worked on. >>>> After a while and being aware that "voting" is a statistical >>>> approach we felt that the most important aspect would be what took >>>> place at the beginning of an os when posting issues: Heart and >>>> meaning, passion and responsibility. >>>> >>>> So we decided to simply have Action Planning in open space mode. >>>> This meant that on the last half day (usually on Day 3 of an open >>>> space), participants met in the circle and posted "projects" they >>>> wanted to work on. Oddly enough, some of the projects posted >>>> apparently had no direct connection to what had happended in the >>>> divergent part (the first two days). (Maybe encouraged by one of my >>>> comments in the beginning such as "Divergence was in the last two >>>> days, now the focus is on projects that I am passionatly interested >>>> in and will be responible for") >>>> Since this approach worked beautifully and was always a dynamic and >>>> intensive way of  getting into the action-oriented nature of os >>>> events we decided to put "voting" or "weighing" into the box >>>> labeled "one less thing to do". >>>> >>>> In November of 2013 I had the privilege to co-facilitate the Action >>>> Planning phase of the 3-day European Learning Exchange in Utrecht >>>> convened by Frank Little (hi there). >>>> >>>> Nobody has done what is called "research" on this and much other >>>> strange stuff that happens in os. And I think thats perfectly ok, >>>> knowing that what works is important and being aware that at least >>>> I will never understand the mysteries of  systems and the force of >>>> selforganisation. Every time we closely watch the prerequisites for >>>> having an open space event including all other experimentally >>>> tested aspects of our craft, it works perfectly. >>>> All the events that did not work that I heard of or was part of, >>>> were not sufficiently close enough to duplicate the effect of the >>>> tested experiment (missing even one of the prerequisites or  trying >>>> to get ost working on a  wicked "business issue" within one day >>>> where actually 3 days were required or not having enough of the >>>> system in the room... ). >>>> >>>> And at this point I usually tell the story of sometimes meeting >>>> folks on the public transportation system in Berlin staring at me >>>> and suddenly bursting out with "open space". When we figured out >>>> which open space the other passenger meant and where it took place >>>> and what it was all about, I would ask what took place after the >>>> event. Invariably, folks told me things that I could in no way >>>> connect to the os, not even after looking at the documentations >>>> that I collected in my archives. >>>> Yes, I knew it was the ripple effect, completely beyond any control. >>>> Well, the old admonition "never delude yourself to be in control" >>>> (never delude yourself in understanding complex systems) pops up. >>>> >>>> I invite you to try the "Action Space" approach in one of your next >>>> online events. >>>> >>>> The script you can find on pages 168 to 175 of the book Meine open >>>> space Praxis >>>>> https://www.westkreuz-verlag.de/de/Meine-open-space-Praxis-E-Book >>>>> https://www.westkreuz-verlag.de/de/Meine-open-space-Praxis >>>> >>>> Frank Little might have an English version of the "Action Space" >>>> that was recordet at the European Learning Exchange in Utrecht back >>>> in 2013... there were 20 participants from Finland, Germany, Italy, >>>> Netherlands and Poland. >>>> Hi to you all just in case you kept reading up to this point. >>>> >>>> >>>> Have a great day and lets talk more at the WOSonOS in Berlin next year >>>> mmp >>>> >>>> Michael M Pannwitz >>>> Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin >>>> +49 30 7728000mmpannwitz@posteo.de >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OSList mailing list --everyone@oslist.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email toeveryone-leave@oslist.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list -- everyone@oslist.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to everyone-leave@oslist.org > Michael M Pannwitz Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin +49 30 7728000mmpannwitz@posteo.de

> Dear Diane, > > no doubt, different approaches with different unique characteristics > do exist. > And I assume that co-existance of different approaches with different > unique characteristics might be fun and productive. > > My experience with very large complex systems  (such as an entire > inner city neighborhood in Berlin) is that they can benefit from > different approaches. > A future search that took place after a year long planning process > produced a variety of projects people were heavily involved in... > including close cooperation between diverse groups/interests. > Against this background, an OST event that needed just one 3.5 hour > Planning Session took place a few months after the Future Search > having the characteristics of a "next meeting". > > And, as you probably remember,  the ost event I facilitated for a > company with a staff of 35 who work with agile worked fine as usual, > including two next meetings in the weeks following the ost event. > > What I never experienced are hybrids such as an openspace-future > search, or an agile-openspace.... > > I did experience, however, that the yearly gatherings of future search > facilitators were conducted in open space (I was part of this in > Philadelphia, Stockholm and facilitated one on the Island of Jersey). > The future search folks had developed impressive approaches in the > aspect of "getting the whole system in the roome". Which meant, that > the participants of those Learning Exchanges were not only > facilitators but also clients (companies, government agencies, > foundations and what have you), researchers, authors... > Something we never achieved to any significant extent in our WOSonOS > gatherings or the OS Learning Exchanges in Europe. > > How about our next WOSonOS in Berlin in 12 months? > Would be an opportunity of having more divergence and more of the > whole system in the room... imagine every one of us attending would > bring along one client or other different  critters... > > Wishing us all a weekend of our liking > mmp > > > > > Am 28.10.2022 um 18:57 schrieb Diana Larsen: >> And the two can co-exist quite nicely, as in Company-wide Agility >> book by John Buck (sociocracy author) and Jutta Eckstein. >> >> >> Company-wide Agility with Beyond Budgeting, Open Space & Sociocracy: >> Survive & Thrive on Disruption >> <https://smile.amazon.com/Company-wide-Agility-Beyond-Budgeting-Sociocracy-ebook/dp/B0841298GC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1666976094&sr=8-1> >> smile.amazon.com >> <https://smile.amazon.com/Company-wide-Agility-Beyond-Budgeting-Sociocracy-ebook/dp/B0841298GC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1666976094&sr=8-1> >> >> <https://smile.amazon.com/Company-wide-Agility-Beyond-Budgeting-Sociocracy-ebook/dp/B0841298GC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1666976094&sr=8-1> >> >> Diana >> >> >> eo.de Michael M Pannwitz Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany +49 30 7728000mmpannwitz@posteo.de

Dear Diana, As far as I understand, Open Space Technology approach is closer to *Holacracy *"https://www.holacracy.org/" then to *Sociocracy*. Hopefully, all these approaches and methods lead to and complete each other for a better collaboration. Have a nice weekend! Funda Michael M Pannwitz via OSList <everyone@oslist.org>, 29 Eki 2022 Cmt, 00:45 tarihinde şunu yazdı: > Dear Diane, > > no doubt, different approaches with different unique characteristics do > exist. > And I assume that co-existance of different approaches with different > unique characteristics might be fun and productive. > > My experience with very large complex systems (such as an entire inner > city neighborhood in Berlin) is that they can benefit from different > approaches. > A future search that took place after a year long planning process > produced a variety of projects people were heavily involved in... including > close cooperation between diverse groups/interests. > Against this background, an OST event that needed just one 3.5 hour > Planning Session took place a few months after the Future Search having the > characteristics of a "next meeting". > > And, as you probably remember, the ost event I facilitated for a company > with a staff of 35 who work with agile worked fine as usual, including two > next meetings in the weeks following the ost event. > > What I never experienced are hybrids such as an openspace-future search, > or an agile-openspace.... > > I did experience, however, that the yearly gatherings of future search > facilitators were conducted in open space (I was part of this in > Philadelphia, Stockholm and facilitated one on the Island of Jersey). The > future search folks had developed impressive approaches in the aspect of > "getting the whole system in the roome". Which meant, that the participants > of those Learning Exchanges were not only facilitators but also clients > (companies, government agencies, foundations and what have you), > researchers, authors... > Something we never achieved to any significant extent in our WOSonOS > gatherings or the OS Learning Exchanges in Europe. > > How about our next WOSonOS in Berlin in 12 months? > Would be an opportunity of having more divergence and more of the whole > system in the room... imagine every one of us attending would bring along > one client or other different critters... > > Wishing us all a weekend of our liking > mmp > > > > > Am 28.10.2022 um 18:57 schrieb Diana Larsen: > > And the two can co-exist quite nicely, as in Company-wide Agility book by > John Buck (sociocracy author) and Jutta Eckstein. > > > Company-wide Agility with Beyond Budgeting, Open Space & Sociocracy: > Survive & Thrive on Disruption > <https://smile.amazon.com/Company-wide-Agility-Beyond-Budgeting-Sociocracy-ebook/dp/B0841298GC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1666976094&sr=8-1> > smile.amazon.com > <https://smile.amazon.com/Company-wide-Agility-Beyond-Budgeting-Sociocracy-ebook/dp/B0841298GC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1666976094&sr=8-1> > > <https://smile.amazon.com/Company-wide-Agility-Beyond-Budgeting-Sociocracy-ebook/dp/B0841298GC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1666976094&sr=8-1> > > Diana > > > eo.de > > Michael M Pannwitz > Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany > +49 30 7728000 mmpannwitz@posteo.de > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list -- everyone@oslist.org > To unsubscribe send an email to everyone-leave@oslist.org >

Dear Michael, Thank you for your thorough reaction. First of all, words can be interpreted differently, I notice. In Open Space I never use the word ‘voting’, only prioritizing for next steps. My invitation is ‘who has a plan that you feel passion about and want to take responsibility for’. In the online environment this was initiated by first prioritizing points of attention from the first two rounds. This was done using a tool from the Miroboard called “voting tool”. in an offline meeting I often use sticky dots. It is also a way to invite people to read all reports, add comments and ideas if they want to, and reflect on what they feel is most important to do action planning for in the next round. Regarding theoretical concepts, I take a pragmatist stance, implying that there is no fundamental difference between theory and practice. All theory is born in practice, so it is good to stay close to what we notice and observe in OS. Some research has been done on success factors and effects of large group meetings such as OS, see the book I wrote based on my PhD research, https://eburon.nl/product/building_an_evidence_based_practical_guide_to_large_scale_interventions/. It provides also some insides on the oxymorons of “sustainable change” and “evidence based” All my best, Tonnie Van der Zouwen Consultancy Dr. Tonnie van der Zouwen MCM info@tonnievanderzouwen.nl www.tonnievanderzouwen.nl 06 50 69 79 82 > Op 28 okt. 2022 om 17:58 heeft Michael M Pannwitz via OSList <everyone@oslist.org> het volgende geschreven: > >  Dear Tony, > > the first sentence in the wikipedia entry is > > "Sociocracy is a theory of governance that seeks to create psychologically safe environments and productive organizations." > > OST focuses on expanding time and space for the unfolding of the forces of selforganisation. > It is not interested nor attached to any outcome. > > However, what regularly happens in OST events are such things as creating safe environments, productive organisations and many other things. These are then felt to be the aim of ost events. Wrong. Stuff like that evolves because there is no other goal than the one postulated. > > cheers > mmp > > Am 28.10.2022 um 17:46 schrieb Tony Budak: >> Hi Michael, >> >> Love the way you shared your thinking and wrote here below. Thank you. >> >> Would you kindly share any insights regards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociocracy >> >> Thanks again and again, >> Tony >> >> On 10/28/2022 7:12 AM, Michael M Pannwitz via OSList wrote: >>> Dear Tonnie, >>> >>> in your email of October 23 you wrote: >>> "We tried to translate the steps from an offline environment to an online one..." >>> >>> Looking at the document I noticed that you used "voting" in the Action Planning part. >>> >>> Way back, when actively working as a facilitator (more than a decade ago) I also used "voting". >>> However, I used the word "weighing" (gewichten, in German). >>> I was an old hand outfittet with many voting tools in my prior 3 decades as an OD consultant (took me a long time to work myself out of the OD mode). >>> Keeping a close eye on everything that took place in the os events we noticed that "voting" along the line of >>> "what you think is most important to work out in action plans" often led to the "odd" behavior that the most important item was not worked on. >>> After a while and being aware that "voting" is a statistical approach we felt that the most important aspect would be what took place at the beginning of an os when posting issues: Heart and meaning, passion and responsibility. >>> >>> So we decided to simply have Action Planning in open space mode. >>> This meant that on the last half day (usually on Day 3 of an open space), participants met in the circle and posted "projects" they wanted to work on. Oddly enough, some of the projects posted apparently had no direct connection to what had happended in the divergent part (the first two days). (Maybe encouraged by one of my comments in the beginning such as "Divergence was in the last two days, now the focus is on projects that I am passionatly interested in and will be responible for") >>> Since this approach worked beautifully and was always a dynamic and intensive way of getting into the action-oriented nature of os events we decided to put "voting" or "weighing" into the box labeled "one less thing to do". >>> >>> In November of 2013 I had the privilege to co-facilitate the Action Planning phase of the 3-day European Learning Exchange in Utrecht convened by Frank Little (hi there). >>> >>> Nobody has done what is called "research" on this and much other strange stuff that happens in os. And I think thats perfectly ok, knowing that what works is important and being aware that at least I will never understand the mysteries of systems and the force of selforganisation. Every time we closely watch the prerequisites for having an open space event including all other experimentally tested aspects of our craft, it works perfectly. >>> All the events that did not work that I heard of or was part of, were not sufficiently close enough to duplicate the effect of the tested experiment (missing even one of the prerequisites or trying to get ost working on a wicked "business issue" within one day where actually 3 days were required or not having enough of the system in the room... ). >>> >>> And at this point I usually tell the story of sometimes meeting folks on the public transportation system in Berlin staring at me and suddenly bursting out with "open space". When we figured out which open space the other passenger meant and where it took place and what it was all about, I would ask what took place after the event. Invariably, folks told me things that I could in no way connect to the os, not even after looking at the documentations that I collected in my archives. >>> Yes, I knew it was the ripple effect, completely beyond any control. >>> Well, the old admonition "never delude yourself to be in control" (never delude yourself in understanding complex systems) pops up. >>> >>> I invite you to try the "Action Space" approach in one of your next online events. >>> >>> The script you can find on pages 168 to 175 of the book Meine open space Praxis >>> >>>> >>>> https://www.westkreuz-verlag.de/de/Meine-open-space-Praxis-E-Book >>>> https://www.westkreuz-verlag.de/de/Meine-open-space-Praxis >>> >>> Frank Little might have an English version of the "Action Space" that was recordet at the European Learning Exchange in Utrecht back in 2013... there were 20 participants from Finland, Germany, Italy, Netherlands and Poland. >>> Hi to you all just in case you kept reading up to this point. >>> >>> >>> Have a great day and lets talk more at the WOSonOS in Berlin next year >>> mmp >>> >>> Michael M Pannwitz >>> Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin >>> +49 30 7728000 mmpannwitz@posteo.de >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OSList mailing list -- everyone@oslist.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to everyone-leave@oslist.org > > > > Michael M Pannwitz > Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin > +49 30 7728000 mmpannwitz@posteo.de > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list -- everyone@oslist.org > To unsubscribe send an email to everyone-leave@oslist.org

no, no. Dynamic Governance/Sociocracy is 'consenting to' rather than consensus. It allows a cypher to chit away, in the background, rather than actively engage.  Look at the nature of the community the two largest proponents live in (Cherry Hill Co-Ho). It shows that it really does not build community.  The subscribed organization structure is fair to midlen but the decision making process is exclusionary. One man's opinion (but I'm not alone).  With apologies (but earnestness),- -ChadConsultations:Organization Development / Community DevelopmentNetworker-----Original Message----- From: Funda Oral via OSList <everyone@oslist.org> To: Michael M Pannwitz <mmpannwitz@posteo.de>; Diana Larsen <diana@agilefluency.org>; Tony Budak <tonybudak@tbmw.org> Cc: OS LIST 2022 <everyone@oslist.org> Sent: Sat, Oct 29, 2022 2:48 am Subject: [OSList] Re: Action Planning in Online/Offline OS 2022 Dear Diana, As far as I understand, Open Space Technology approach is closer to Holacracy "https://www.holacracy.org/" then to Sociocracy.Hopefully, all these approaches and methods lead to and complete each other for a better collaboration. Have a nice weekend!  Funda  Michael M Pannwitz via OSList <everyone@oslist.org>, 29 Eki 2022 Cmt, 00:45 tarihinde şunu yazdı: Dear Diane, no doubt, different approaches with different unique characteristics do exist. And I assume that co-existance of different approaches with different unique characteristics might be fun and productive. My experience with very large complex systems  (such as an entire inner city neighborhood in Berlin) is that they can benefit from different approaches. A future search that took place after a year long planning process produced a variety of projects people were heavily involved in... including close cooperation between diverse groups/interests. Against this background, an OST event that needed just one 3.5 hour Planning Session took place a few months after the Future Search having the characteristics of a "next meeting". And, as you probably remember,  the ost event I facilitated for a company with a staff of 35 who work with agile worked fine as usual, including two next meetings in the weeks following the ost event. What I never experienced are hybrids such as an openspace-future search, or an agile-openspace.... I did experience, however, that the yearly gatherings of future search facilitators were conducted in open space (I was part of this in Philadelphia, Stockholm and facilitated one on the Island of Jersey). The future search folks had developed impressive approaches in the aspect of "getting the whole system in the roome". Which meant, that the participants of those Learning Exchanges were not only facilitators but also clients (companies, government agencies, foundations and what have you), researchers, authors... Something we never achieved to any significant extent in our WOSonOS gatherings or the OS Learning Exchanges in Europe. How about our next WOSonOS in Berlin in 12 months? Would be an opportunity of having more divergence and more of the whole system in the room... imagine every one of us attending would bring along one client or other different  critters... Wishing us all a weekend of our liking mmp   Am 28.10.2022 um 18:57 schrieb Diana Larsen: And the two can co-exist quite nicely, as in Company-wide Agility book by John Buck (sociocracy author) and Jutta Eckstein.  | | | | Company-wide Agility with Beyond Budgeting, Open Space & Sociocracy: Survive & Thrive on Disruption smile.amazon.com | | Diana eo.de Michael M Pannwitz Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany +49 30 7728000 mmpannwitz@posteo.de _______________________________________________ OSList mailing list -- everyone@oslist.org To unsubscribe send an email to everyone-leave@oslist.org _______________________________________________ OSList mailing list -- everyone@oslist.org To unsubscribe send an email to everyone-leave@oslist.org

 Dear Diane,

 no doubt, different approaches with different unique
 characteristics do exist.
 And I assume that co-existance of different approaches with
 different unique characteristics might be fun and productive.

 My experience with very large complex systems (such as an entire
 inner city neighborhood in Berlin) is that they can benefit from
 different approaches.
 A future search that took place after a year long planning
 process produced a variety of projects people were heavily
 involved in... including close cooperation between diverse
 groups/interests.
 Against this background, an OST event that needed just one 3.5
 hour Planning Session took place a few months after the Future
 Search having the characteristics of a "next meeting".

 And, as you probably remember,  the ost event I facilitated for a
 company with a staff of 35 who work with agile worked fine as
 usual, including two next meetings in the weeks following the ost
 event.

 What I never experienced are hybrids such as an openspace-future
 search, or an agile-openspace....

 I did experience, however, that the yearly gatherings of future
 search facilitators were conducted in open space (I was part of
 this in Philadelphia, Stockholm and facilitated one on the Island
 of Jersey). The future search folks had developed impressive
 approaches in the aspect of "getting the whole system in the
 roome". Which meant, that the participants of those Learning
 Exchanges were not only facilitators but also clients (companies,
 government agencies, foundations and what have you), researchers,
 authors...
 Something we never achieved to any significant extent in our
 WOSonOS gatherings or the OS Learning Exchanges in Europe.

 How about our next WOSonOS in Berlin in 12 months?
 Would be an opportunity of having more divergence and more of the
 whole system in the room... imagine every one of us attending
 would bring along one client or other different critters...

 Wishing us all a weekend of our liking
 mmp




 Am 28.10.2022 um 18:57 schrieb Diana Larsen:

 And the two can co-exist quite nicely, as in Company-wide
 Agility book by John Buck (sociocracy author) and Jutta Eckstein.


 Company-wide Agility with Beyond Budgeting, Open Space &
 Sociocracy: Survive & Thrive on Disruption
 <https://smile.amazon.com/Company-wide-Agility-Beyond-Budgeting-Sociocracy-ebook/dp/B0841298GC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1666976094&sr=8-1>
 smile.amazon.com
 <https://smile.amazon.com/Company-wide-Agility-Beyond-Budgeting-Sociocracy-ebook/dp/B0841298GC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1666976094&sr=8-1>

 <https://smile.amazon.com/Company-wide-Agility-Beyond-Budgeting-Sociocracy-ebook/dp/B0841298GC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1666976094&sr=8-1>

 Diana


 eo.de <http://eo.de/>

 Michael M Pannwitz
 Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany
 +49 30 7728000mmpannwitz@posteo.de

 _______________________________________________
 OSList mailing list -- everyone@oslist.org
 To unsubscribe send an email to everyone-leave@oslist.org

Hm, tell me what "It allows a cypher to chit away" means. And are you Chris or Chad? Just gained an hour since we switched to winter time. If I had not gained it, I would not have had the time to attend to this issue. Have a great day and enjoy the extra hour  if it exists in your territory (you could use it to include yourself in the Open Space World Map joining another 507 os workers on this planet) > https://www.openspaceworldmap.org/inclusion Greetings from Berlin mmp Am 30.10.2022 um 04:12 schrieb C. Fuller via OSList: > no, no. Dynamic Governance/Sociocracy is 'consenting to' rather than > consensus. It allows a cypher to chit away, in the background, rather > than actively engage.  Look at the nature of the community the two > largest proponents live in (Cherry Hill Co-Ho). It shows that it > really does not build community.  The subscribed organization > structure is fair to midlen but the decision making process is > exclusionary. One man's opinion (but I'm not alone).  With apologies > (but earnestness), > - -Chad > Consultations: > Organization Development / Community Development > Networker > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -----Original Message----- > From: Funda Oral via OSList <everyone@oslist.org> > To: Michael M Pannwitz <mmpannwitz@posteo.de>; Diana Larsen > <diana@agilefluency.org>; Tony Budak <tonybudak@tbmw.org> > Cc: OS LIST 2022 <everyone@oslist.org> > Sent: Sat, Oct 29, 2022 2:48 am > Subject: [OSList] Re: Action Planning in Online/Offline OS 2022 > > Dear Diana, > > As far as I understand, Open Space Technology approach is closer to > *Holacracy *"https://www.holacracy.org/" then to *Sociocracy*. > Hopefully, all these approaches and methods lead to and complete each > other for a better collaboration. > > Have a nice weekend! > > Funda > > Michael M Pannwitz via OSList <everyone@oslist.org>, 29 Eki 2022 Cmt, > 00:45 tarihinde şunu yazdı: > >> Dear Diane, >> >> no doubt, different approaches with different unique >> characteristics do exist. >> And I assume that co-existance of different approaches with >> different unique characteristics might be fun and productive. >> >> My experience with very large complex systems (such as an entire >> inner city neighborhood in Berlin) is that they can benefit from >> different approaches. >> A future search that took place after a year long planning >> process produced a variety of projects people were heavily >> involved in... including close cooperation between diverse >> groups/interests. >> Against this background, an OST event that needed just one 3.5 >> hour Planning Session took place a few months after the Future >> Search having the characteristics of a "next meeting". >> >> And, as you probably remember,  the ost event I facilitated for a >> company with a staff of 35 who work with agile worked fine as >> usual, including two next meetings in the weeks following the ost >> event. >> >> What I never experienced are hybrids such as an openspace-future >> search, or an agile-openspace.... >> >> I did experience, however, that the yearly gatherings of future >> search facilitators were conducted in open space (I was part of >> this in Philadelphia, Stockholm and facilitated one on the Island >> of Jersey). The future search folks had developed impressive >> approaches in the aspect of "getting the whole system in the >> roome". Which meant, that the participants of those Learning >> Exchanges were not only facilitators but also clients (companies, >> government agencies, foundations and what have you), researchers, >> authors... >> Something we never achieved to any significant extent in our >> WOSonOS gatherings or the OS Learning Exchanges in Europe. >> >> How about our next WOSonOS in Berlin in 12 months? >> Would be an opportunity of having more divergence and more of the >> whole system in the room... imagine every one of us attending >> would bring along one client or other different critters... >> >> Wishing us all a weekend of our liking >> mmp >> >> >> >> >> Am 28.10.2022 um 18:57 schrieb Diana Larsen: >>> And the two can co-exist quite nicely, as in Company-wide >>> Agility book by John Buck (sociocracy author) and Jutta Eckstein. >>> >>> >>> Company-wide Agility with Beyond Budgeting, Open Space & >>> Sociocracy: Survive & Thrive on Disruption >>> <https://smile.amazon.com/Company-wide-Agility-Beyond-Budgeting-Sociocracy-ebook/dp/B0841298GC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1666976094&sr=8-1> >>> smile.amazon.com >>> <https://smile.amazon.com/Company-wide-Agility-Beyond-Budgeting-Sociocracy-ebook/dp/B0841298GC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1666976094&sr=8-1> >>> >>> <https://smile.amazon.com/Company-wide-Agility-Beyond-Budgeting-Sociocracy-ebook/dp/B0841298GC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1666976094&sr=8-1> >>> >>> Diana >>> >>> >>> eo.de <http://eo.de/> > > Michael M Pannwitz > Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany > +49 30 7728000mmpannwitz@posteo.de > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list -- everyone@oslist.org > To unsubscribe send an email to everyone-leave@oslist.org > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list -- everyone@oslist.org > To unsubscribe send an email to everyone-leave@oslist.org > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list --everyone@oslist.org > To unsubscribe send an email toeveryone-leave@oslist.org Michael M Pannwitz Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany +49 30 7728000mmpannwitz@posteo.de See the Open Space World Map with 507 Open Space Workers living in 77 countries and active in 142 countries worldwide:www.openspaceworldmap.org And see books/ebooks and task cards on open space and other related treasures, most in German, some in English, some multilingual: https://www.westkreuz-verlag.de/de/Kommunikation

 Dear Diana, 

 _______________________________________________

"...It allows a cypher to chit away, in the background, rather than..."sorry, my own language: cypher - algorithm, a code, a math equation, a mechanical process                                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cipher                                        chit      - process w/o need to invest one's self   "...And are you Chris or Chad?..."last time we corresponded we covered that.  (I only pop up in extreme circumstances). "Many misread <chrlsful@aol.com> as chr "i" s as apposed to chr "L" s as theyare used to a name in that position/slot. The ISP removed the vowels from mine when giving me a url/e-mail address. My nameis "Chad". My legal/billing name is "Charles Fuller III, LICSW, Neutral", kinda long, no 1 calls me that." So I am both and more asposted to U those several yrs ago.  The italicized is in a desk top file for use when asked this, U R not alone in that & I'm prepared.In Community,- -ChadPlez use the aforementioned org structure & group decision making process when having lill to no investmnt in outcome, let others take care of that for you~ -----Original Message----- From: Michael M Pannwitz via OSList <everyone@oslist.org> To: C. Fuller <chrlsful@aol.com>; OS LIST 2022 <everyone@oslist.org> Sent: Sun, Oct 30, 2022 1:32 am Subject: [OSList] Re: OSList::Action Planning in Online/Offline OS 2022 Hm, tell me what "It allows a cypher to chit away" means. And are you Chris or Chad? Just gained an hour since we switched to winter time. If I had not gained it, I would not have had the time to attend to this issue. Have a great day and enjoy the extra hour  if it exists in your territory (you could use it to include yourself in the Open Space World Map joining another 507 os workers on this planet) https://www.openspaceworldmap.org/inclusion Greetings from Berlin mmp Am 30.10.2022 um 04:12 schrieb C. Fuller via OSList: no, no. Dynamic Governance/Sociocracy is 'consenting to' rather than consensus. It allows a cypher to chit away, in the background, rather than actively engage.  Look at the nature of the community the two largest proponents live in (Cherry Hill Co-Ho). It shows that it really does not build community.  The subscribed organization structure is fair to midlen but the decision making process is exclusionary. One man's opinion (but I'm not alone).  With apologies (but earnestness), - -Chad Consultations: Organization Development / Community Development Networker -----Original Message----- From: Funda Oral via OSList <everyone@oslist.org> To: Michael M Pannwitz <mmpannwitz@posteo.de>; Diana Larsen <diana@agilefluency.org>; Tony Budak <tonybudak@tbmw.org> Cc: OS LIST 2022 <everyone@oslist.org> Sent: Sat, Oct 29, 2022 2:48 am Subject: [OSList] Re: Action Planning in Online/Offline OS 2022 Dear Diana, As far as I understand, Open Space Technology approach is closer to Holacracy "https://www.holacracy.org/" then to Sociocracy. Hopefully, all these approaches and methods lead to and complete each other for a better collaboration. Have a nice weekend!  Funda  Michael M Pannwitz via OSList <everyone@oslist.org>, 29 Eki 2022 Cmt, 00:45 tarihinde şunu yazdı: Dear Diane, no doubt, different approaches with different unique characteristics do exist. And I assume that co-existance of different approaches with different unique characteristics might be fun and productive. My experience with very large complex systems  (such as an entire inner city neighborhood in Berlin) is that they can benefit from different approaches. A future search that took place after a year long planning process produced a variety of projects people were heavily involved in... including close cooperation between diverse groups/interests. Against this background, an OST event that needed just one 3.5 hour Planning Session took place a few months after the Future Search having the characteristics of a "next meeting". And, as you probably remember,  the ost event I facilitated for a company with a staff of 35 who work with agile worked fine as usual, including two next meetings in the weeks following the ost event. What I never experienced are hybrids such as an openspace-future search, or an agile-openspace.... I did experience, however, that the yearly gatherings of future search facilitators were conducted in open space (I was part of this in Philadelphia, Stockholm and facilitated one on the Island of Jersey). The future search folks had developed impressive approaches in the aspect of "getting the whole system in the roome". Which meant, that the participants of those Learning Exchanges were not only facilitators but also clients (companies, government agencies, foundations and what have you), researchers, authors... Something we never achieved to any significant extent in our WOSonOS gatherings or the OS Learning Exchanges in Europe. How about our next WOSonOS in Berlin in 12 months? Would be an opportunity of having more divergence and more of the whole system in the room... imagine every one of us attending would bring along one client or other different  critters... Wishing us all a weekend of our liking mmp   Am 28.10.2022 um 18:57 schrieb Diana Larsen: And the two can co-exist quite nicely, as in Company-wide Agility book by John Buck (sociocracy author) and Jutta Eckstein.  | | | | Company-wide Agility with Beyond Budgeting, Open Space & Sociocracy: Survive & Thrive on Disruption smile.amazon.com | | Diana eo.de Michael M Pannwitz Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany +49 30 7728000 mmpannwitz@posteo.de _______________________________________________ OSList mailing list -- everyone@oslist.org To unsubscribe send an email to everyone-leave@oslist.org _______________________________________________ OSList mailing list -- everyone@oslist.org To unsubscribe send an email to everyone-leave@oslist.org _______________________________________________ OSList mailing list -- everyone@oslist.org To unsubscribe send an email to everyone-leave@oslist.org Michael M Pannwitz Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany +49 30 7728000 mmpannwitz@posteo.de See the Open Space World Map with 507 Open Space Workers living in 77 countries and active in 142 countries worldwide: www.openspaceworldmap.org And see books/ebooks and task cards on open space and other related treasures, most in German, some in English, some multilingual: https://www.westkreuz-verlag.de/de/Kommunikation _______________________________________________ OSList mailing list -- everyone@oslist.org To unsubscribe send an email to everyone-leave@oslist.org